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Atheist vs Christian: Is God A Murderer?

// February 11th, 2009 // 1 Comment » // atheist vs christian

As contradicting as this will sound to some of you (in light of the title of this post), let me start off by confirming that I am an evangelical Christian. I do believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. However, there are some challenging verses I am going to share with you today. First, I start with a post by Daniel Florien (Christian-turned-atheist) of the Unreasonable Faith blog:

God Loves You and Wants To Rip You Open

Here’s an encouraging bible verse to start your day:

I will fall upon [my people]
like a bear robbed of her cubs;
I will tear open their breast,
and there I will devour them like a lion,
as a wild beast would rip them open.

I will destroy you, O Israel,
who can help you?

(Hosea 13:4-9)

What a kind, loving father the God of the Bible is! Let’s praise him for his wisdom in threatening to rip up his children like a wild beast!

Don’t you want to spend eternity with this charming being? Won’t you accept Jesus into your heart before his Father rips it out?

Based on the verse as it’s written, most rational people would say no. In the context of Daniel’s post even I would say no. Does this confirm God is a murderer and therefore must not be loving?

Let me share another interesting passage with you. During my time in seminary I participated in a group exercise. The wonderful thing about my seminary is that we were challenged to do things in unconventional ways, all with the intent that the Bible & God could reconcile issues. The exercise was to be part of a group of Christians that could argue the position of being pro-choice on the issue of a woman’s right to choose to abort a fetus. While researching Scripture, I came across a rather convincing verse:

Hosea 13:16-
…They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.

God was speaking through the prophet Hosea and specifically describing abortion. As you can imagine, after I argued with that verse, there was silence in the room.

Does this verse mean that God condones abortion? Is this a black eye to the pro-life argument propogated by most Christians?

Out of context, it’s relatively easy to find specific verses that can sound conflicting to the idea of a loving and merciful God. It’s no different than when someone has a conversation and states something that taken out of context could be derogatory. In the context of the conversation it is reasonable and not worth mentioning. The same thing happens with the Bible. Unfortunately, the difference with the Bible is that many Christians can’t defend it well as they have not done the necessary study to learn the context. Additionally, most atheists (regardless of whether they were once Christian or not) don’t care to hear that there is some context to the verse other than what their two eyes can read on the page.

As a Christian, I have to respect that the atheist isn’t obligated to believe my interpretation of the Bible based on historical and cultural contexts that aren’t understood through reading the words at face value. However, as an atheist that claims to have an open mind, wouldn’t it help you to look at things from my point of view before you challenge my statements? Just as you use science to defend your positions, shouldn’t I be entitled to use history and the culture at the time of the writing to defend my position?

I will clarify the position of God being a murderer in my next post.

Atheist vs Christian: California’s Proposition 8

// February 10th, 2009 // Comments Off // atheist vs christian

Going to start things off with an example of a video made by some well-known Hollywood celebrities regarding California’s Proposition 8 and how it’s become a religious issue. I’m asking for all that view this video to have an open mind and then to consider the context with which it is shown.

Atheists that watch the video will probably believe that it is a very accurate depiction of Christians, while (most) Christians will be offended.

Question for atheists: Have you ever read Leviticus? Do you understand the context of that book and why it was written?

Question for Christians: Have you ever read Leviticus? Do you understand the context of that book and why it was written?

Unfortunately, there is a lack of understanding on both sides. Many times we end up just repeating the same arguments with the same disappointing results.

To the atheist: Did you know that when you just cite stuff you hear from others or read from the internet without actually doing the research yourself and learning on your own, you are no better than the Christian that you say has no basis for their faith and is just a believer because their parents raised them in church.

To the Christian: Did you know that when you cite stuff you hear in church or read (without deeper study) from the Bible that you are doing exactly what the atheists claim you are doing?

Do you all realize that California’s Proposition 8 is not a religious issue? It is about rewriting the California Constitution to edit the language that currently shows that marriage is only recognized as being between one man and one woman. It’s a matter of law, and really not about morals or religion. Why does it have to become a religious issue? Opponents of Prop 8 cite that they don’t want to be governed by the Bible and should be free to live without discrimination; Christians want to make this a morality issue citing that the Bible clearly states that marriage was intended to be between one man and one woman.

I’ll go more into the dynamics of why this is not a religious issue in a later post.

Atheist vs Christian: Smackdown!

// February 9th, 2009 // 6 Comments » // atheist vs christian

Shhhh. If you pause and be silent you will be able to hear it. That sound of a voice in the distance that seems to be getting louder and louder. Can you hear it? It sounds like this: “Let’s get ready to rumblllllllllllllllllle!”

When an atheist and a Christian engage in a conversation, this is the sound that we seem to hear before we begin the discussion. It’s as if each of has challenged the other to a smackdown of heavenly or earthly proportions.

To me, this sound is deafening and I’m going to do my part to mediate. For the atheists I declare this statement: I am not going to try and convert you. I will not use cliches to pick away at your intelligence. My life’s purpose is not to see you become a Christian or to proselytize. For the Christians that may read this, let me clarify my position to you as well: I am not here to help you stumble or to challenge your theology. I do not proclaim that I am the sole bearer of truth or to represent that I know Jesus any better than you do. My goal is not to criticize you. I know that I have a plank in my eye that is probably bigger than the speck in your eye.

Basically, I am tired of seeing atheists and Christians getting ready to rumble and regurgitating the same old tired statements in defense of their positions, which ultimately get us no where. The sad truth is that Christians can’t really engage atheists in a relevant way unless they have been in their shoes (not always literally, but figuratively) and atheists can’t debate Christians unless they understand the true Christian perspective. Once this has been established between the two sides, some clarity can begin. Maybe neither side will win any “converts,” but possibly both sides can leave the table with mutual respect for each other. Rather then ending the battle in a tie, I propose that we lock the doors to the arena so that we don’t step into the ring at all.

Throughout the week I’ll be posting some things that I hope will lend some understanding to both sides of the argument and help us bridge the divide that causes us to be antagonistic and hateful of one another. May it help you in your journey as a Christian or an atheist and may we each realize that the other has value in society and are both good and moral people, even if we may not agree on God, Jesus, or the Bible.

Choices…One Christian’s Perspective

// October 8th, 2008 // Comments Off // Bible, Christianity, God, life, people

After responding to a comment from my friend Charles on my previous blog post, I was reminded of a conversation I had that was about making wrong/bad decisions and failure. I figured I’d post some thoughts and see how everyone responds.

When it comes to making choices as a Christian, I am not one to really put a lot of merit into the choices made by others. It’s way too easy to be pious and superior and say that anything going against God’s standards/commandments is a sin and I as a right-standing Christian must rebuke (speak against or reprimand) them. The first error in this is that I am not right-standing and am in absolutely no position to judge anyone. Second, I believe that as humans we will be subject to making mistakes and should be allowed the opportunity to learn from them. As a child, hearing from a parent not to touch a hot stove sounds reasonable, however some inherent part of us will want to know what it is like to touch that hot stove. If the child goes against his/her better judgement and touches the hot stove and gets burned, now the sensation of pain will be a stronger deterrent to ever repeating that action than the spoken words of their parent.

Pastor Steven Furtick wrote in his blog:

“I don’t mind those I lead making mistakes. In fact, I prefer it. If they’re not making mistakes, they’re probably not playing to win.

I just want you to make new mistakes. Different mistakes than you made last time. Mistakes that reveal a new level of effort, or a new frontier of endeavor.”

I agree with that. Mistakes are inevitable. People should be encouraged to challenge themselves and be open to make mistakes. It’s through those mistakes that we can reflect and learn what not to do and seek ways to make better choices in the future. However, let me state clearly that I don’t condone people making decisions to experiment with illegal drugs or dangerous sex practices just for the sake of seeing whether they like the experience, and if not, chalking it up to a bad choice not to be repeated again.

I’ve had many successes in life and lots of days to enjoy the fruit of my labor, but in retrospect, I wouldn’t have been able to know even a small percentage of that unless I had failed miserably or learned the hard way during the journey of life. For those of you in my generation, I’m kinda of an example of one who learned from the streets and not through countless college degrees; a student of the school of hard knocks :)

As Christians, we live under grace, therefore we should offer grace to others, just as God offered it to us.

Hebrews 4:16- Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Are there mistakes in your past that keep repeating themselves? Mistakes that were never overcome with a positive experience? No matter how long ago it was, it’s never too late to turn it around! Don’t be hard on yourself or be quick to condemn others for making a wrong or bad choice. We all have done it, and we’ll all continue to do it.