church

Dave (personal) / church — 3 Comments
3
Aug 10

Am I a challenge to the church?

I had an interesting conversation with my friend LP last weekend. We were talking about the church and how we connected or didn’t connect depending on ethnic makeup and current culture within a church. LP & I are both Asian Americans and talked about issues of feeling out of place in most predominantly Caucasian American church settings. At the same time, we both acknowledged that most Caucasian Americans have no clue why we would feel different and disconnected. Especially those churches that pride themselves on being welcoming of everyone.

As we talked further, I was asked by LP if I saw myself as someone always having to present challenges for the sake of creating conflict, which could ultimately lead to a mutual understanding and resolution of the conflict. I answered that I was not the creator of conflict nor challenging of the status quo. However, the more I reflect back on that conversation, the more I feel like maybe I was wrong. My goal is to see the church united and cultures co-existing with one another in community, but at the same time seeing each individual and their culture celebrated and appreciated. I am not one who wants to see diversity in the church for the sake of diversity–bringing together a collection of different ethnic groups, yet forcing them to align themselves to the established culture (i.e., white, suburban mega church model) of worship is not productive. We shouldn’t be invited to the Sunday gathering, but asked to leave our cultural identity and heritage at the door.

In many regards, I do see myself as someone challenging the church to respond to the future where white America will become the minority easily within my lifetime. It is not for the sake of creating conflict or criticism, but it is to create a tension that must be addressed. I tend to make people feel uncomfortable if they are already comfortable within the church. My experience has proven to me that when things aren’t brought up for the sake of avoiding conflict, usually things don’t get resolved as they are just never discussed.

As I think about this more, I wonder what others think about me. Am I viewed as an ultimate unifier or an instigator? Should I care? Should I do something different?

I don’t want to be seen as someone critical (seeing only the negative) of the church, but I do believe that we as the church are at the forefront of a huge shift that has already begun. Either we can recognize this shift and move with it–maybe even get ahead of it–or seek shelter and hope that it will pass. Complacency and being stagnation is proving to be a detriment for today’s church. We need a renewal and transformed thinking to get us through the 22nd century church. Let’s not bury our talent in the ground waiting for the master to return so that we can give him back exactly what we think he wants returned. Instead, let us find a way to invest and reach across the aisle and come together for the sake of enrichment in a church that knows no boundaries and truly celebrates the wealth we have in the cultural diversity which is the melting pot known as America.

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Dave (personal) / church / leadership — 8 Comments
27
Jul 10

blog one another

The title is in reference to my friend Jon Reid‘s blog of the same title. In particular, it has to do with this post: “and” (Philippians 1:1 lectio) and Jon’s reply to my comment on that post. I’m sure my takeaway from Jon’s post was different than his thoughts that went into writing the content, but it struck me pretty hard in my own way. You see, I’ve been wandering around here in Portland, OR for the past six months feeling alone and like a stranger in a strange place. No matter what I do, I just feel unsettled here. During a tokbox video chat with my friend Josh Roberts, I found myself unexpectedly going off on a rant about pastoral leadership and how I felt there was a breakdown in pastors caring for and mentoring leaders within their churches. So many people are leaving the ministry and embracing life in roles as speakers, authors, coaches…you name it. They are abandoning the church. It saddens me. So many people are falling away from their roles as servant leaders because of feeling burned out or just going through the motions. They have lost their passion and have become unsupported for their callings. This saddens me as well.

During my rant I told Josh that it was just what was in my mind at the time of our conversation. He insists that it was more than that. He told me it was a burden on my heart. I never thought about it before as a burden, but from that moment on I’ve thought about what he said. Is it a burden? Must I respond?

Feeling lost and alone here in Portland, I too have removed myself from any formal ministry role. I’ve been working up to 12 hours a day, coming home around 9:30pm and even working Sunday mornings until 9:30pm sometimes. I’ve been okay with that up until that tokbox conversation with my friend Josh. I hadn’t really thought about acting on it much until I read the post from my friend Jon. Jon wrote in his blog post:

“I haven’t had either a Paul or a Timothy in my life for many years now, and it shows. ++Lord, send me a Paul. Send me a Timothy.++”

This crushed me. My heart went out to Jon. I know his pain and anguish. I hope for what he hopes for. We need people to have a burden on their hearts to help equip and encourage others. We need people like the Apostle Paul to pass along his encouragement and training to people like Timothy. It must be a continual cycle of renewal. Somehow we have lost this mentoring relationship. I feel I must get back into this, even at an informal level. I may not be the designated leader in a community at the moment, but I have a burden to give back to those who want to receive and encourage those that just need a little boost.

While I could always just go do this, I feel like there must be more to it than that. A community, a network, a fellowship… something bigger than myself must be the result.

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church — 6 Comments
20
Jul 10

The illusion better known as: The Church

I’ve had several conversations with people in the past few months about the church. What they thought they were doing for the sake of the church was in-fact helping to propel an institution rather than creating a movement of love, grace, hope and faith. It became more about saving the institution of church, rather than sharing the saving grace of Christ with the world.

As I see it, the church has become the focus of our faith. How many times have you heard the story of someone who left their faith at the doorstep of the last church that disillusioned them? In the real world it seems like people have become conditioned to the concept that the church is where our hope should be placed. Why is that? One reason could be how we have preached that ones money and time must be given to the church in order to prove our Christianity. We must tithe to our local church and share Christ’s love through ministries and programs within our local church in order to be considered “members” of that church.

Church as we know it has become about being self-sustaining rather than life-giving. We have put the emphasis on our success as a church rather than being instruments of Christ amongst the marginalized and fringes of society where he walked, dined, and conversed during his 3 year ministry.

Yes, my commentary has taken on a somewhat cynical tone, but if you had been involved in the fifty or so conversations I have had in the past few months, you too would see this trend that people have become disillusioned by the church. As a result, many of them have abandoned their faith. Some of them, while not abandoning their faith, have left their leadership roles within the church in search of something different.

Today’s seeker sensitive movement may not be about seeking God and his Son Jesus–instead it may actually be about people believing in God and wanting to find a place where he resides and seeks our hearts rather than our time and money.

While I may sound cynical about the church, it is not my intention to be critical of the church. However, I do believe that we as the church are losing people to secularism because we no longer have something to offer them. We have unintentionally directed our intentions to the masses of people already in eternal relationship with the Savior at the expense of those that aren’t drawn to our church–or the way we portray our God.

I am burdened by this missed opportunity, yet do not have an answer about how to address it. Let the conversation begin!

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Dave (personal) / church / ministry — 3 Comments
28
Jun 10

Marketplace ministry: Church at a Kia dealership?

I must admit that for the longest time I felt like a failure…not because our first church planting experience wasn’t a success, but because after all of my time in seminary and as an assistant pastor and lead pastor, I suddenly found myself working at a Kia dealership in Portland, Oregon. To me it was a job–the only job I could get after a two month job search–not a ministry. How foolish of me though! God has been unpacking a lot of things for me in just the 30 days I have been an internet sales manager at this Kia dealership. I have several stories I could share, but one is so poignant that it never seems to leave my mind.

Mr. H is a very successful businessman. He makes over $200,000 a year at a business he has owned for about 20 years. He grew up in the church and has been a pretty faithful Christian until a year ago. You see, Mr. H lost his brother at the age of 57. One night his brother went to sleep and never woke up. His heart stopped beating in the middle of the night and he passed away. A few months after the loss of his brother, Mr. H felt like God had left him. He blamed God for taking his brother away from him and his family. Mr. H was still hurting and still resentful towards God. He stopped going to Sunday services and didn’t want anything else to do with what he thought God wanted. Know that I did not force my faith upon Mr. H, nor did I manipulate the conversation to direct to this topic. Through some crazy, convoluted series of events we ended up on this subject and I never see it coming, until I’m immersed in the dialog.

Through just listening to Mr. H tell his story, I could see that there was some revelation and some healing happening right before my eyes. Mr. H asked me to share my story of how I went from being an atheist of 37 years to a seminary graduate and pastor. Mr. H told said to me that it was obviously God moving in my life. He said that it would just that kind of miraculous act of God coming upon him in his voice in order to resurrect his faith. However, I knew that Mr. H knew that deep down inside he knows God and that he knows God is there. He’s just stinging from the pain of losing his brother to a heart condition that could ultimately take his own life as well. It’s a hereditary condition that the doctors don’t know why it happens or when/if it will strike. That’s scary! Mr. H is in pain, but I know he is also scared. We talked some more and I shared how in Ecclesiastes and the final chapter of Jonah of examples God gave us of being angry or not being able to understand why things happen as they do. It’s a real emotion to be hurt and confused about God’s actions and that he understands that. It’s not a punishment and it’s not for us to feel sorry for ourselves over. As we come to realize that, we free our mind to begin to see some sense in the losses.

The craziest part of all of this, is that a successful businessman named Mr. H came in to buy a truck for his business, yet chose to reveal some painful experiences from the loss of his brother and his personal relationship with God to a stranger. You see, for some strange reason these are the stories and conversations I was never able to have with regular attenders of a church service. However, sitting across from me at my desk as I hold the title of internet sales manager, people seem free to discuss personal aspects of their life and faith and God with me in a very real and meaningful way. I’m at a Kia dealership worried about whether I’ll make enough money to pay my rent, yet God is bringing people to me that have impacted my life and given me opportunities to do what I always dreamed about doing as a lead pastor of a church plant–I’m reaching people outside of the church, speaking language they understand, and getting them to look at church, God, Christ, and people in a different way. What I call a job, God is using as a new ministry. I still find it a mystery, but am very grateful for the opportunity I have been entrusted with to be a small part of the process to (hopefully) seeing some people renew their faith in God and his church.

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Bible / church / church relevance / ministry / social justice / worship — 16 Comments
23
Jun 10

tithing…is it relevant today?

Currently having a great conversation via twitter that started with this initial question:

@AaronBird: What do you say Christian leaders: Does supporting a missionary or ministry outside of your church count as your tithe?

How would you answer? Before you do, here are some snippets of additional dialog that you may consider as well:

  • inworship: @daveingland Gotta be honest. That question from @AaronBird sounds very religious and selfish.
  • aaronbird: @inworship …worthy ministries also require funds. Conflict of interest? Dunno. Just thinkin’.
  • daveingland: @aaronbird @inworship i think your tithe/offering should go to those in need. i’m more in line with paul’s teaching on gracious giving.
  • soverpeck: @daveingland @aaronbird @inworship modern way of doing church is a money pit. in the bible the “10% tithe” was about giving food to the poor
  • inworship: @AaronBird Biblically, we need to encourage heart giving. Any expectation to the local church/organization, opposes that teaching.
  • aaronbird: @inworship I don’t disagree. Just wonder what a church leader feels when giving is down & has 2 make cuts but ppl expct more but give less.
  • daveingland: @soverpeck @inworship @aaronbird in acts 2, they sold what they had & gave to those in need. way more than 10% & definitely money, not food
  • soverpeck: @daveingland @inworship @aaronbird absolutely. again, not to pay salaries or for cool sound systems and a mac
  • aaronbird: @soverpeck @daveingland @inworship Do we always have to defer to “the way it used to be”? Why not forge ahead & be relevant to now?
  • aaronbird: @soverpeck @daveingland @inworship Should we not pay or pastors & other church leaders because that’s how they used to do it in the NT?

So, should one tithe to the church? Is a tithe 10%? Should giving be considered a tithe? Can one–in a biblical sense–give to those in need outside of the church and consider that their tithe…thereby not giving to the church as well? Your thoughts are appreciated.

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