atheist vs christian

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18
Feb 09

Atheist vs Christian: God is Love?

God is love! What does that mean? To many Christians, it means that God can only do acts that are loving. God is the originator of love; we love, only because God first loved us. Atheists take Christians at their word, and then ask why would a God of love allow so much suffering in the world? Some atheists that have done their homework and read the Bible may go even further. As I discussed in my previous blog post, why would God murder if he is so loving?

The failure in both positions is that we do not really understand the full aspect of love. For God, to love is also to be just. As Christians, how can we really look to God as God if we can’t accept that his plan of redemption must include justice? As an atheist, how could you respect Christians that do not believe God can control all things for his goodness?

As a former atheist, I completely understand the atheist question. One must realize that even the Bible cites references to God killing people and causing his prophets to declare the eradication of some tribes in the Old Testament. Even Jesus—believed to be the Son of God—was murdered by hanging from a cross. As a Christian, I can see how it is easy to avoid this dilemma. Therefore, it becomes a cyclical situation where atheists ask the same questions only to hear the same answers and perpetuate this over eternity.

However, let’s come together and agree on one thing. If there really is a God, then who are we (since we are not God) to assume that we can know all there is to know about God? If God was so easily understood, then first we’d all be Christians, and second we’d all be just like him, therefore eliminating the need for a belief in a higher God.

So, having established that we cannot know all there is to know about God, let’s go to the aspect of love. What is love to you? Seriously, take a minute and think about that. How would you define love? Think about someone you love even more than you love yourself: wife, husband, son, daughter, best friend, sister, brother, etc. Now, imagine you are at home with this person you love so much. You hear a noise as a stranger busts in through the front door and he has a knife. He says he has been sent to kill the person you are with you—the one whom you love so much—but not to worry as he will not harm you. As the killer approaches, you reach into the desk drawer and pull out a gun. Do you shoot-to-kill or do you freeze and do nothing while your loved one dies by the hands of the killer? Christian or atheist, I think the answer is pretty clear. Even though we can assume there is no present danger to ourselves, we would kill to save our loved ones. Is that considered an act of love?

If God invoked the killing of people so that the people he loved could be saved, should that be considered murder?

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11
Feb 09

Atheist vs Christian: Is God A Murderer?

As contradicting as this will sound to some of you (in light of the title of this post), let me start off by confirming that I am an evangelical Christian. I do believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. However, there are some challenging verses I am going to share with you today. First, I start with a post by Daniel Florien (Christian-turned-atheist) of the Unreasonable Faith blog:

    God Loves You and Wants To Rip You Open

    Here’s an encouraging bible verse to start your day:

    I will fall upon [my people]
    like a bear robbed of her cubs;
    I will tear open their breast,
    and there I will devour them like a lion,
    as a wild beast would rip them open.

    I will destroy you, O Israel,
    who can help you?

    (Hosea 13:4-9)

    What a kind, loving father the God of the Bible is! Let’s praise him for his wisdom in threatening to rip up his children like a wild beast!

    Don’t you want to spend eternity with this charming being? Won’t you accept Jesus into your heart before his Father rips it out?

Based on the verse as it’s written, most rational people would say no. In the context of Daniel’s post even I would say no. Does this confirm God is a murderer and therefore must not be loving?

Let me share another interesting passage with you. During my time in seminary I participated in a group exercise. The wonderful thing about my seminary is that we were challenged to do things in unconventional ways, all with the intent that the Bible & God could reconcile issues. The exercise was to be part of a group of Christians that could argue the position of being pro-choice on the issue of a woman’s right to choose to abort a fetus. While researching Scripture, I came across a rather convincing verse:

    Hosea 13:16-
    …They will fall by the sword;
    their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
    their pregnant women ripped open.

God was speaking through the prophet Hosea and specifically describing abortion. As you can imagine, after I argued with that verse, there was silence in the room.

Does this verse mean that God condones abortion? Is this a black eye to the pro-life argument propogated by most Christians?

Out of context, it’s relatively easy to find specific verses that can sound conflicting to the idea of a loving and merciful God. It’s no different than when someone has a conversation and states something that taken out of context could be derogatory. In the context of the conversation it is reasonable and not worth mentioning. The same thing happens with the Bible. Unfortunately, the difference with the Bible is that many Christians can’t defend it well as they have not done the necessary study to learn the context. Additionally, most atheists (regardless of whether they were once Christian or not) don’t care to hear that there is some context to the verse other than what their two eyes can read on the page.

As a Christian, I have to respect that the atheist isn’t obligated to believe my interpretation of the Bible based on historical and cultural contexts that aren’t understood through reading the words at face value. However, as an atheist that claims to have an open mind, wouldn’t it help you to look at things from my point of view before you challenge my statements? Just as you use science to defend your positions, shouldn’t I be entitled to use history and the culture at the time of the writing to defend my position?

I will clarify the position of God being a murderer in my next post.

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10
Feb 09

Atheist vs Christian: California’s Proposition 8

Going to start things off with an example of a video made by some well-known Hollywood celebrities regarding California’s Proposition 8 and how it’s become a religious issue. I’m asking for all that view this video to have an open mind and then to consider the context with which it is shown.

Atheists that watch the video will probably believe that it is a very accurate depiction of Christians, while (most) Christians will be offended.

    Question for atheists: Have you ever read Leviticus? Do you understand the context of that book and why it was written?

    Question for Christians: Have you ever read Leviticus? Do you understand the context of that book and why it was written?

Unfortunately, there is a lack of understanding on both sides. Many times we end up just repeating the same arguments with the same disappointing results.

    To the atheist: Did you know that when you just cite stuff you hear from others or read from the internet without actually doing the research yourself and learning on your own, you are no better than the Christian that you say has no basis for their faith and is just a believer because their parents raised them in church.

    To the Christian: Did you know that when you cite stuff you hear in church or read (without deeper study) from the Bible that you are doing exactly what the atheists claim you are doing?

Do you all realize that California’s Proposition 8 is not a religious issue? It is about rewriting the California Constitution to edit the language that currently shows that marriage is only recognized as being between one man and one woman. It’s a matter of law, and really not about morals or religion. Why does it have to become a religious issue? Opponents of Prop 8 cite that they don’t want to be governed by the Bible and should be free to live without discrimination; Christians want to make this a morality issue citing that the Bible clearly states that marriage was intended to be between one man and one woman.

I’ll go more into the dynamics of why this is not a religious issue in a later post.

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9
Feb 09

Atheist vs Christian: Smackdown!

Shhhh. If you pause and be silent you will be able to hear it. That sound of a voice in the distance that seems to be getting louder and louder. Can you hear it? It sounds like this: “Let’s get ready to rumblllllllllllllllllle!”

When an atheist and a Christian engage in a conversation, this is the sound that we seem to hear before we begin the discussion. It’s as if each of has challenged the other to a smackdown of heavenly or earthly proportions.

To me, this sound is deafening and I’m going to do my part to mediate. For the atheists I declare this statement: I am not going to try and convert you. I will not use cliches to pick away at your intelligence. My life’s purpose is not to see you become a Christian or to proselytize. For the Christians that may read this, let me clarify my position to you as well: I am not here to help you stumble or to challenge your theology. I do not proclaim that I am the sole bearer of truth or to represent that I know Jesus any better than you do. My goal is not to criticize you. I know that I have a plank in my eye that is probably bigger than the speck in your eye.

Basically, I am tired of seeing atheists and Christians getting ready to rumble and regurgitating the same old tired statements in defense of their positions, which ultimately get us no where. The sad truth is that Christians can’t really engage atheists in a relevant way unless they have been in their shoes (not always literally, but figuratively) and atheists can’t debate Christians unless they understand the true Christian perspective. Once this has been established between the two sides, some clarity can begin. Maybe neither side will win any “converts,” but possibly both sides can leave the table with mutual respect for each other. Rather then ending the battle in a tie, I propose that we lock the doors to the arena so that we don’t step into the ring at all.

Throughout the week I’ll be posting some things that I hope will lend some understanding to both sides of the argument and help us bridge the divide that causes us to be antagonistic and hateful of one another. May it help you in your journey as a Christian or an atheist and may we each realize that the other has value in society and are both good and moral people, even if we may not agree on God, Jesus, or the Bible.

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