Comments on: The illusion better known as: The Church http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/ Commentary and discussion on the missional church, faith, culture, media and more... Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:53:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: brettaljets http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1658 brettaljets Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:07:17 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1658 mmmmmmmmmm......... mmmmmmmmmm………

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1654 daveingland Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:18:50 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1654 DJ, I'm quickly learning that when people talk about Portland and new age or spirituality, they are really referring to a very small geographical area within downtown Portland proper. Everywhere outside of the downtown area, be it north, south, east, or west the climate is much different. There are a lot of evangelicals with many of them already attending church services (although it may not be every Sunday). I've found more people believe in God and understand the concept of Christ as God here in the Portland area than I did when I was in Sacramento! My biggest contrast though between Portland and Sacramento is that here in Portland there are tons of church plants all seemingly trying to accomplish the same thing--they want to be missional and unconventional, yet they ultimately seem to evolve into more-traditional churches if they experience any growth. Either they grow into making it all about Sunday services with preaching and great music as an emphasis or they stay small (around 4-10 at a gathering) and remain as a single house church. There seems to be nothing in-between here, yet everyone initially strives to be that in-between church. This doesn't mean I'm cynical though :) I'm more hopeful than cynical and my hope lies in people starting to recognize the trend and being drawn to starting new movements after already having gone through the experience of realizing the missional-to-megachurch type of progression that seems so prevalent here. Just as I believe there must be a place for ethnic, cultural churches to exist independent of the predominantly caucasian church, I do realize that there is a place to inclusively gather believers as well. My heart--and my hope--is that somehow I will connect with others that care more about reaching unbelievers or unchurched people with the gospel of Christ and Matthew 28/Acts 2/Ephesians 4 as a basis of being outwardly focused more than nurturing the core at the expense of those outside the four walls of the institution. Thanks DJ! DJ, I’m quickly learning that when people talk about Portland and new age or spirituality, they are really referring to a very small geographical area within downtown Portland proper. Everywhere outside of the downtown area, be it north, south, east, or west the climate is much different. There are a lot of evangelicals with many of them already attending church services (although it may not be every Sunday). I’ve found more people believe in God and understand the concept of Christ as God here in the Portland area than I did when I was in Sacramento!

My biggest contrast though between Portland and Sacramento is that here in Portland there are tons of church plants all seemingly trying to accomplish the same thing–they want to be missional and unconventional, yet they ultimately seem to evolve into more-traditional churches if they experience any growth. Either they grow into making it all about Sunday services with preaching and great music as an emphasis or they stay small (around 4-10 at a gathering) and remain as a single house church. There seems to be nothing in-between here, yet everyone initially strives to be that in-between church. This doesn’t mean I’m cynical though :) I’m more hopeful than cynical and my hope lies in people starting to recognize the trend and being drawn to starting new movements after already having gone through the experience of realizing the missional-to-megachurch type of progression that seems so prevalent here.

Just as I believe there must be a place for ethnic, cultural churches to exist independent of the predominantly caucasian church, I do realize that there is a place to inclusively gather believers as well. My heart–and my hope–is that somehow I will connect with others that care more about reaching unbelievers or unchurched people with the gospel of Christ and Matthew 28/Acts 2/Ephesians 4 as a basis of being outwardly focused more than nurturing the core at the expense of those outside the four walls of the institution. Thanks DJ!

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1653 daveingland Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:06:42 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1653 Thanks Brian! Thanks Brian!

]]> By: djchuang http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1652 djchuang Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:00:04 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1652 There have been several articles and books in recent years that have noticed the growing numbers of unchurched believers, so what you're hearing may be another example of that, along with the unbelievers in the greater Portland area. Another factor is: the locals there have told me the spiritual climate there is more interested in nature and new age than Christian spirituality. And, as for those who are already believers and have that eternal relationship with the Savior, there's is a place for gathering them for worship, ya know :) A lack of evangelistic zeal is found with institutional and uninstitutional churches.. some of my random thoughts about this dilemma you're noticing... There have been several articles and books in recent years that have noticed the growing numbers of unchurched believers, so what you’re hearing may be another example of that, along with the unbelievers in the greater Portland area. Another factor is: the locals there have told me the spiritual climate there is more interested in nature and new age than Christian spirituality.

And, as for those who are already believers and have that eternal relationship with the Savior, there’s is a place for gathering them for worship, ya know :) A lack of evangelistic zeal is found with institutional and uninstitutional churches.. some of my random thoughts about this dilemma you’re noticing…

]]> By: Brian http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1645 Brian Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:08:34 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1645 Dave, Well said. I would agree with your summary almost 100%. I am not leaving the church or my faith because of the failure I have seen. I am however evaluating where my tithe money goes and where I devote my missional time. I want to impact the person next door, the business person I meet with during the day and the hurting young man that is struggling with huge life issues. We have to make the focus about Jesus and the real life change he can offer. That is it! Dave,

Well said. I would agree with your summary almost 100%. I am not leaving the church or my faith because of the failure I have seen. I am however evaluating where my tithe money goes and where I devote my missional time. I want to impact the person next door, the business person I meet with during the day and the hurting young man that is struggling with huge life issues.

We have to make the focus about Jesus and the real life change he can offer. That is it!

]]> By: Tweets that mention The illusion better known as: The Church « daveingland.com -- Topsy.com http://www.daveingland.com/2010/07/20/the-illusion-better-known-as-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1644 Tweets that mention The illusion better known as: The Church « daveingland.com -- Topsy.com Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:58:52 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1309#comment-1644 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dave Ingland and Dave Ingland, Tony Mack. Tony Mack said: The illusion better known as: The Church: I’ve had several conversations with people in the p... http://bit.ly/cJMdqg @daveingland [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dave Ingland and Dave Ingland, Tony Mack. Tony Mack said: The illusion better known as: The Church: I’ve had several conversations with people in the p… http://bit.ly/cJMdqg @daveingland [...]

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