Comments on: Should the attractional and missional church stand divided? http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/ Commentary and discussion on the missional church, faith, culture, media and more... Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:53:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dave Ingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1290 Dave Ingland Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:47:35 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1290 Darin, I would say that being purely missional is sustainable, but on a small scale and with a lot of continual hard work. I don't believe that as Christians mature they need a more attractional setting...I sense that church culture has allowed this mindset to thrive. It's why through projects such as the Reveal study done by Willow Creek that we can find that maturing Christians in an attractional setting on Sundays aren't necessarily being discipled well. In other words, not much action coincides with their faith, nor are they being equipped to share that faith. It becomes too easy to just invite people to church, rather than explain why they should go. However, I do agree that the context can be different in various communities and also that what I as a Christian may want or see as beneficial may not be the same as another Christian. I do believe though that we must move towards some balance of being missional with a somewhat attractional setting in a less-consumeristic mindset in order to be a church that reaches many in the future. By adhering strictly to either an attractional or missional model we lose too many people along the way that in turn are losing faith in the church. Darin, I would say that being purely missional is sustainable, but on a small scale and with a lot of continual hard work. I don’t believe that as Christians mature they need a more attractional setting…I sense that church culture has allowed this mindset to thrive. It’s why through projects such as the Reveal study done by Willow Creek that we can find that maturing Christians in an attractional setting on Sundays aren’t necessarily being discipled well. In other words, not much action coincides with their faith, nor are they being equipped to share that faith. It becomes too easy to just invite people to church, rather than explain why they should go.

However, I do agree that the context can be different in various communities and also that what I as a Christian may want or see as beneficial may not be the same as another Christian. I do believe though that we must move towards some balance of being missional with a somewhat attractional setting in a less-consumeristic mindset in order to be a church that reaches many in the future. By adhering strictly to either an attractional or missional model we lose too many people along the way that in turn are losing faith in the church.

]]> By: Darin http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1287 Darin Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:19:39 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1287 My take and experience says that eventually pure missional is not realistic. My take. It goes back to what Rob said. We see that at our church. The away from God and out of church people reached by our mission work like tutoring and medical needs actually expect and want a very attractional church experience when they come back to Christ. It often connects them to a place and time when they were close to God. They are not looking for what people call a missional experience in my neck of the woods. We find we can remove barriers with mission but they still need to be attracted. I must say this. Our mission attitude can be a deterrent to already believers but that is a different discussion. My take and experience says that eventually pure missional is not realistic. My take.

It goes back to what Rob said. We see that at our church. The away from God and out of church people reached by our mission work like tutoring and medical needs actually expect and want a very attractional church experience when they come back to Christ.

It often connects them to a place and time when they were close to God. They are not looking for what people call a missional experience in my neck of the woods. We find we can remove barriers with mission but they still need to be attracted.

I must say this. Our mission attitude can be a deterrent to already believers but that is a different discussion.

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1278 daveingland Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:25:14 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1278 Richie, the <a href="http://servolution.org/" rel="nofollow">Servolution</a> project from Healing Place Church in Louisiana is definitely a great thing! I would still consider HPC an attractional church with missional aspects. They're focus is still on Sundays and I know it works well for them. To see something Servolution be a part of who we are everyday as the church would truly bring heaven to earth. Hoping one day we'll be able to see that happen. Thanks Richie! Richie, the Servolution project from Healing Place Church in Louisiana is definitely a great thing! I would still consider HPC an attractional church with missional aspects. They’re focus is still on Sundays and I know it works well for them. To see something Servolution be a part of who we are everyday as the church would truly bring heaven to earth. Hoping one day we’ll be able to see that happen. Thanks Richie!

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1277 daveingland Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:21:36 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1277 Josh, I'm hopeful that somehow a blending of these two models can work rather than seeing churches strive to be one or the other. In the truest sense of being attractional or missional, I don't see how they can be unified, but when we remove the labels and just make it about gathering together as community and also going out into the community as a lifestyle I can see it working for greater good of the kingdom. I enjoy seeing all that is happening with <a href="http://www.encounterassembly.com/" rel="nofollow">Encounter Assembly</a> as you strive to be more missional daily in the community of Burbank, CA. Josh, I’m hopeful that somehow a blending of these two models can work rather than seeing churches strive to be one or the other. In the truest sense of being attractional or missional, I don’t see how they can be unified, but when we remove the labels and just make it about gathering together as community and also going out into the community as a lifestyle I can see it working for greater good of the kingdom.

I enjoy seeing all that is happening with Encounter Assembly as you strive to be more missional daily in the community of Burbank, CA.

]]> By: Richie http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1276 Richie Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:03:33 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1276 Dave, My feeling is that both could and should coexist. Why can't you do both? Look at "Servolution" as a good example of this, I think the guys' name is Rizzo in New Orleans. Does a great service but also does great serving. The idea of them being separate is where I think we have erred. Why does it have to be one or the other; why can't it be both? Just curious? This is what we are striving for at Legacy, and thus far it has been a doable thing. We are foregoing our church service this Sunday to go and BE THE CHURCH by serving in the community versus causing potential spiritual constipation in a dead church. If the church is to survive in America at least, I think we MUST put feet and action to our faith and belief. These are just my initial thoughts on this. Good stuff man! Thanks! IHL, Richie Dave,

My feeling is that both could and should coexist. Why can’t you do both? Look at “Servolution” as a good example of this, I think the guys’ name is Rizzo in New Orleans. Does a great service but also does great serving. The idea of them being separate is where I think we have erred. Why does it have to be one or the other; why can’t it be both? Just curious?

This is what we are striving for at Legacy, and thus far it has been a doable thing. We are foregoing our church service this Sunday to go and BE THE CHURCH by serving in the community versus causing potential spiritual constipation in a dead church. If the church is to survive in America at least, I think we MUST put feet and action to our faith and belief.

These are just my initial thoughts on this. Good stuff man! Thanks!

IHL,

Richie

]]> By: Josh Roberts http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1275 Josh Roberts Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:28:30 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1275 Hello again Dave! Yeah, I believe we can strive for both attraction and mission. You've visited Encounter and you know that we are very driven by community; within our congregation and in Burbank. It drives who we are and a lot of what we do. We've primarily focused on mission, and will continue to do so, but we also feel a responsibility provide a main gathering that honors God and meets needs that aren't met in smaller settings. As I mentioned in the last post, I'm not convinced that the two models have to be contradictory. Peace Hello again Dave! Yeah, I believe we can strive for both attraction and mission. You’ve visited Encounter and you know that we are very driven by community; within our congregation and in Burbank. It drives who we are and a lot of what we do.

We’ve primarily focused on mission, and will continue to do so, but we also feel a responsibility provide a main gathering that honors God and meets needs that aren’t met in smaller settings.

As I mentioned in the last post, I’m not convinced that the two models have to be contradictory.

Peace

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1273 daveingland Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:59:45 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1273 Sambi, thanks for your insight with reference to worship music in the church. There is tension in many more things other than just being attractional or missional. At the core of the philosophy of the church I think people want to settle for one or the other. I was one of those people. However, blending things together in harmony with God's moving in his kingdom will cause us to be more open minded about the church and how we can be relevant in this post-Christian age in America. Like you, I say why settle for one or the other? Thanks Sambi! Sambi, thanks for your insight with reference to worship music in the church. There is tension in many more things other than just being attractional or missional. At the core of the philosophy of the church I think people want to settle for one or the other. I was one of those people. However, blending things together in harmony with God’s moving in his kingdom will cause us to be more open minded about the church and how we can be relevant in this post-Christian age in America. Like you, I say why settle for one or the other? Thanks Sambi!

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1272 daveingland Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:56:43 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1272 Rev Rob, great to have you share your story here! You are one of those pioneering type ministers that came from a more corporate, attractional church to then go into a missional focus with a people group that were in the margins of the community for unknown reasons. I appreciate following your journey at <a href="http://www.bikerschurch.net/" rel="nofollow">Biker's Church</a> and seeing God move in new ways and share his love to people that deserve it even more than most of us. Rev Rob, great to have you share your story here! You are one of those pioneering type ministers that came from a more corporate, attractional church to then go into a missional focus with a people group that were in the margins of the community for unknown reasons. I appreciate following your journey at Biker’s Church and seeing God move in new ways and share his love to people that deserve it even more than most of us.

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1271 daveingland Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:53:29 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1271 Kenny, I sense most church planters would be looking more towards one model as they move forward, either launching large and attractional or small and relational. You may know more about this than me though. My thought is that many attractional churches are interested in becoming more missional, yet not sure how that will play out as it is a new philosophy of ministry. Thanks for the link to Sweet's insight! Kenny, I sense most church planters would be looking more towards one model as they move forward, either launching large and attractional or small and relational. You may know more about this than me though. My thought is that many attractional churches are interested in becoming more missional, yet not sure how that will play out as it is a new philosophy of ministry.

Thanks for the link to Sweet’s insight!

]]> By: Sambi Katano http://www.daveingland.com/2010/01/26/should-the-attractional-and-missional-church-stand-divided/comment-page-1/#comment-1268 Sambi Katano Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:20:29 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=1073#comment-1268 This reminds me of a debate I wrestled with many years ago if worship should be music focused or heart focused. Two different ends which people try to find a happy medium. God's conclusion was, pursue musical excellence and give your whole heart. We as a church focus on our weekend services, then focus on the surrounding community during the week. Why settle for one or the other? This reminds me of a debate I wrestled with many years ago if worship should be music focused or heart focused. Two different ends which people try to find a happy medium. God’s conclusion was, pursue musical excellence and give your whole heart. We as a church focus on our weekend services, then focus on the surrounding community during the week. Why settle for one or the other?

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