Comments on: Fueling the fire of Christian celebrity http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/ Commentary and discussion ideas on missional church planting, faith, ministry, people, culture and more... Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:09:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Amy Moffitt http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1057 Amy Moffitt Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:05:15 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1057 Props for this post, Dave. When I look at the above images, or the promotional materials for any of these big Christian conferences, I'm pretty much repulsed. I don't understand the appeal. When I go to conferences, I go to hear the ideas and see my buddies. And most of the time, at least some of the folks on the stage ARE my buddies, because they're NOT rock stars, they're just Christian folks with ideas and some resources. Sometimes, I'm even allowed to get ON the stage, because they're the kinds of conferences that aren't tightly choreographed, and there aren't celebrities who need to be protected from the crush of crowds. Also, not to sound like a broken record, but WHY ARE ALL THE SPEAKERS WHITE GUYS? Bleh. Props for this post, Dave. When I look at the above images, or the promotional materials for any of these big Christian conferences, I’m pretty much repulsed. I don’t understand the appeal. When I go to conferences, I go to hear the ideas and see my buddies. And most of the time, at least some of the folks on the stage ARE my buddies, because they’re NOT rock stars, they’re just Christian folks with ideas and some resources. Sometimes, I’m even allowed to get ON the stage, because they’re the kinds of conferences that aren’t tightly choreographed, and there aren’t celebrities who need to be protected from the crush of crowds.

Also, not to sound like a broken record, but WHY ARE ALL THE SPEAKERS WHITE GUYS? Bleh.

]]> By: Richard j Lee http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1037 Richard j Lee Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:18:36 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1037 Kudos, Dave for writing this. Too often things that are hip and chic don't get evaluated because a majority of people are following them. Thank you for making us pause and think. Kudos, Dave for writing this. Too often things that are hip and chic don’t get evaluated because a majority of people are following them. Thank you for making us pause and think.

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1031 daveingland Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:56:08 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1031 Speaking in a paid or unpaid environment are elements, but the atmosphere that follows all the hype and celebrity does exist. I agree that the same type of idol worship can (and does) occur at The Idea Camp. However, The Idea Camp was not hyped up as a forum to bring people in to sit passively and listen to wisdom or testimonies of how God has grown big churches for sought-after preachers on the speaking circuit--The Idea Camp is about presenting and collaborating on ideas in a welcoming environment. As a nobody, I could connect with a somebody and engage in a conversation that might even benefit the somebody more than the nobody. I'm not, nor will ever be, against the sharing of wisdom or experience for the benefit of others, for the sake of kingdom building. I am opposed to the environment we create to raise people up on pedestals only to give them more chance to fall down. I can think of numerous examples. Even just yesterday I talked to a young guy in his twenties that told me he figured with his blogging & online presence he'd be able to network with people that would openly reach out to him because of who he was. However, no one ever opened any doors, lines formed for the self-glorifying handshaking and email address exchanges, and he said there was a sense of phoniness present at the conference. This was from someone that was there, and it came about through a discussion on a completely different topic. Some can handle "fame" and not let it go to their heads. However, most of us in the seats will glorify the speakers no matter how humble they come across. Even in humbleness and humility they create their own buzz about said humbleness and humility. It can be a vicious cycle. Mark, thanks so much for clarifying your previous comment. I appreciate that very much! Know that I apologize as well as I may have been a bit hyper-sensitive due to some of the backlash I have received as a result of my position on the issue of deadlyviper.org being shutdown and the book being pulled from the shelves. I'm hopeful that this reply also may help to clarify my previous statements. Again, thanks! Speaking in a paid or unpaid environment are elements, but the atmosphere that follows all the hype and celebrity does exist. I agree that the same type of idol worship can (and does) occur at The Idea Camp. However, The Idea Camp was not hyped up as a forum to bring people in to sit passively and listen to wisdom or testimonies of how God has grown big churches for sought-after preachers on the speaking circuit–The Idea Camp is about presenting and collaborating on ideas in a welcoming environment. As a nobody, I could connect with a somebody and engage in a conversation that might even benefit the somebody more than the nobody.

I’m not, nor will ever be, against the sharing of wisdom or experience for the benefit of others, for the sake of kingdom building. I am opposed to the environment we create to raise people up on pedestals only to give them more chance to fall down. I can think of numerous examples.

Even just yesterday I talked to a young guy in his twenties that told me he figured with his blogging & online presence he’d be able to network with people that would openly reach out to him because of who he was. However, no one ever opened any doors, lines formed for the self-glorifying handshaking and email address exchanges, and he said there was a sense of phoniness present at the conference. This was from someone that was there, and it came about through a discussion on a completely different topic. Some can handle “fame” and not let it go to their heads. However, most of us in the seats will glorify the speakers no matter how humble they come across. Even in humbleness and humility they create their own buzz about said humbleness and humility. It can be a vicious cycle.

Mark, thanks so much for clarifying your previous comment. I appreciate that very much! Know that I apologize as well as I may have been a bit hyper-sensitive due to some of the backlash I have received as a result of my position on the issue of deadlyviper.org being shutdown and the book being pulled from the shelves. I’m hopeful that this reply also may help to clarify my previous statements. Again, thanks!

]]> By: Mark Heimburger http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1029 Mark Heimburger Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:19:17 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1029 Sorry I didn't mean to say you have a heart issue. I was saying everyone has a heart issue. I was speaking about the 1000 of adoring fans. I was just trying to not knock the speakers and worship leaders for excepting the call to speak or lead worship. Which it seemed to me that you were doing by the what if Peter got paid statement. I really did not mean any disrespect to you. And I was trying to bring the point home that the same speakers speak at conferences that they don't get paid at with my example of Catalyst West speaker being the same as The Idea Camp speaker. And also that some of the people that Idol worship at Catalyst might just as easily Idol worship at The Idea Camp because they have a heart issue. Not that you have a heart issue. Sorry! Keep on rocking! Mark Sorry I didn’t mean to say you have a heart issue. I was saying everyone has a heart issue. I was speaking about the 1000 of adoring fans. I was just trying to not knock the speakers and worship leaders for excepting the call to speak or lead worship. Which it seemed to me that you were doing by the what if Peter got paid statement. I really did not mean any disrespect to you. And I was trying to bring the point home that the same speakers speak at conferences that they don’t get paid at with my example of Catalyst West speaker being the same as The Idea Camp speaker. And also that some of the people that Idol worship at Catalyst might just as easily Idol worship at The Idea Camp because they have a heart issue. Not that you have a heart issue. Sorry! Keep on rocking!

Mark

]]> By: daveingland http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1016 daveingland Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:51:14 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1016 Mark, obviously you and I think differently on the matter of large conferences that use hype to promote them and in-turn ask for money to build said hype. However, I would offer that I think it's a bit unfair for you to criticize me for having heart issues when it comes to worshiping God or being tempted by success. I'm not here to convince you that Catalyst or any other conference is evil or should be boycotted. Whether The Idea Camp is a better place for me has nothing to do with worshiping speakers or worship artists or crowds. Many of the same things that happen at an event like Catalyst happen at The Idea Camp. However, it goes further than that and that is what I appreciate most about it. I met main speakers at The Idea Camp that are interested in listening and developing dialog with someone as insignificant as me. You may be interested to know that I had a chance to meet someone on the leadership team of Catalyst while at The Idea Camp. I invited him to discuss his inside perspective on Catalyst so I can better understand his context rather than solely embrace my own outside perspective. I will be pursuing that conversation. You see, I'm not here to soapbox my own agenda and manipulate others to follow me. I'm just one guy voicing my thoughts and opinions and hoping to see some dialog develop. Thanks for your perspective, but I'm not seeing any dialog developing, just defense of your position. Mark, obviously you and I think differently on the matter of large conferences that use hype to promote them and in-turn ask for money to build said hype. However, I would offer that I think it’s a bit unfair for you to criticize me for having heart issues when it comes to worshiping God or being tempted by success. I’m not here to convince you that Catalyst or any other conference is evil or should be boycotted. Whether The Idea Camp is a better place for me has nothing to do with worshiping speakers or worship artists or crowds. Many of the same things that happen at an event like Catalyst happen at The Idea Camp. However, it goes further than that and that is what I appreciate most about it. I met main speakers at The Idea Camp that are interested in listening and developing dialog with someone as insignificant as me. You may be interested to know that I had a chance to meet someone on the leadership team of Catalyst while at The Idea Camp. I invited him to discuss his inside perspective on Catalyst so I can better understand his context rather than solely embrace my own outside perspective. I will be pursuing that conversation. You see, I’m not here to soapbox my own agenda and manipulate others to follow me. I’m just one guy voicing my thoughts and opinions and hoping to see some dialog develop. Thanks for your perspective, but I’m not seeing any dialog developing, just defense of your position.

]]> By: Badda Being http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1007 Badda Being Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:32:57 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1007 Cool. So we agree. Cool. So we agree.

]]> By: Mark Heimburger http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1003 Mark Heimburger Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:30:39 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1003 Well, I would say Job was successful. And if I was trying to learn how to be successful through tragedy I would be the first to sign up for that conference. I go to Catalyst for tips, stratagies, and systems so I can be a better leader. Not to be entertained, or idol worship. Is there another conference around better equiped to meet my goals? Well, I would say Job was successful. And if I was trying to learn how to be successful through tragedy I would be the first to sign up for that conference.

I go to Catalyst for tips, stratagies, and systems so I can be a better leader. Not to be entertained, or idol worship. Is there another conference around better equiped to meet my goals?

]]> By: Mark Heimburger http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1001 Mark Heimburger Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:51:04 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1001 I respect your staying true to what you believe. But I don't get the thousands of adoring fans. The majority of people at Catalyst are not standing in line just to touch the sweat from Andy Stanley or Rob Bell's shirt. They are there to learn from successful leaders. The same leaders that go and speak to The Idea Camp it sounds like. Check out the speakers from last year's Catalyst West... http://www.benarment.com/.a/6a00d83451dccb69e2010536f628db970c-300wi There are always going to be people who take a good thing way to far, but I think those people are in the minority. Oh and Peter didn't do anything at Pentecost, it was God. And it doesn't matter what the world does or thinks, if He wants it to be done it will be done. If some guy wants to pay you 5 dollars or 50K dollars Gods will be done... Money is always a matter of the heart and an act of worship. So what if Peter got paid. What did Peter do with the money? Did he give to God what was owed? Did he give it all back to the Church? Did he use it to change his community? Or did he take it all and buy that new sporty camel that all the other priest were buying back then? It is all a matter of the heart. And your warning is good, don't let success alone entice you and don't worship rockstars, worship God and run after his success. If you have issues with that, Catalyst might not be the best place for you. But The Idea Camp might not be the best place either... I respect your staying true to what you believe. But I don’t get the thousands of adoring fans. The majority of people at Catalyst are not standing in line just to touch the sweat from Andy Stanley or Rob Bell’s shirt. They are there to learn from successful leaders. The same leaders that go and speak to The Idea Camp it sounds like. Check out the speakers from last year’s Catalyst West…
http://www.benarment.com/.a/6a00d83451dccb69e2010536f628db970c-300wi
There are always going to be people who take a good thing way to far, but I think those people are in the minority.

Oh and Peter didn’t do anything at Pentecost, it was God. And it doesn’t matter what the world does or thinks, if He wants it to be done it will be done. If some guy wants to pay you 5 dollars or 50K dollars Gods will be done… Money is always a matter of the heart and an act of worship. So what if Peter got paid. What did Peter do with the money? Did he give to God what was owed? Did he give it all back to the Church? Did he use it to change his community? Or did he take it all and buy that new sporty camel that all the other priest were buying back then?

It is all a matter of the heart. And your warning is good, don’t let success alone entice you and don’t worship rockstars, worship God and run after his success. If you have issues with that, Catalyst might not be the best place for you. But The Idea Camp might not be the best place either…

]]> By: Badda Being http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-1000 Badda Being Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:28:23 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-1000 God blessed Job with tragedy. Would you say that Job was successful? But somehow I doubt that you will try to reap tragedy in your own life to mimic his success the same way you might try to reap wealth and fame to mimic the success of celebrities. Job's success has nothing at all to do with his material conditions. Neither does the success of celebrities -- unless, of course, you measure success in terms of worldly gain. God blessed Job with tragedy. Would you say that Job was successful? But somehow I doubt that you will try to reap tragedy in your own life to mimic his success the same way you might try to reap wealth and fame to mimic the success of celebrities. Job’s success has nothing at all to do with his material conditions. Neither does the success of celebrities — unless, of course, you measure success in terms of worldly gain.

]]> By: Badda Being http://www.daveingland.com/2009/11/09/fueling-the-fire-of-christian-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-999 Badda Being Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:37:54 +0000 http://www.daveingland.com/?p=968#comment-999 Really, if by success you mean becoming a celebrity. I never said that human lessons are bad. Really, if by success you mean becoming a celebrity.

I never said that human lessons are bad.

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