Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. --1 John 2:15 New International Version
I just Re-tweeted something I saw mentioning that my friend Charles Lee was going to be speaking at Exponential 2010. I was excited! Then I saw a tweeted link from the website on a national church planter’s conference announcing The Idea Camp being in Portland 11/20-21. I was excited! Then…it struck me like a ton of bricks. There it was. I saw an image of Rob Bell being displayed in a banner as if he was Elvis Presley circa 1972:
Sorry, but this image disturbs me…seriously disturbs me. What are we doing? We’re mimicking the secular world and hyping up big budget Christian events with Christian celebrities--treating them like celebrities, marketing them like celebrities, ogling after them like celebrities--and putting our hopes into one big social event every year. It’s our chance to hear first-hand from famous people why they are famous and we are not. We are basically acting like the world that idolizes fame, except we are operating under the premise that it’s different because we are working for God. Seriously, are you buying in to the hype? The better question is, should you be buying into the hype?
We are Christians that are supposed to live in the world, yet not be a part of the world, yet we are doing the exact same thing to attract Christians that worldly idols do to attract idolaters. How can this be right?
Imagine what our faith would be like if we read in the Bible that Jesus went from town to town preaching the Good News and charging $300 per person in order to hear the message. Imagine what the Apostle Paul’s story would have been like had he gone to Rome, Galatia, Ephesus and spoke from the coliseums and amphitheaters to a crowd of paying spectators, while watching the rest of the people perish because they couldn’t afford to hear him speak.
Take a look at some of the additional images that are rotated through the banner for this national Christian conference below and you decide:
What do you see when you see the images above? Doesn’t it look like a promo for some celebrities or a rock concert? Is that the image we in the church really want to portray to the world? Is that an image we as the church want to portray to Christians? Does anyone else even really care? Maybe you should:
No carved gods of any size, shape, or form of anything whatever, whether of things that fly or walk or swim. Don’t bow down to them and don’t serve them because I am God, your God, and I’m a most jealous God, punishing the children for any sins their parents pass on to them to the third, and yes, even to the fourth generation of those who hate me. But I’m unswervingly loyal to the thousands who love me and keep my commandments. --Exodus 20:4-6 The Message
I bring this up because some from Chloe’s family brought a most disturbing report to my attention—that you’re fighting among yourselves! I’ll tell you exactly what I was told: You’re all picking sides, going around saying, “I’m on Paul’s side,” or “I’m for Apollos,” or “Peter is my man,” or “I’m in the Messiah group.”
I ask you, “Has the Messiah been chopped up in little pieces so we can each have a relic all our own? Was Paul crucified for you? Was a single one of you baptized in Paul’s name?” I was not involved with any of your baptisms—except for Crispus and Gaius—and on getting this report, I’m sure glad I wasn’t. At least no one can go around saying he was baptized in my name. (Come to think of it, I also baptized Stephanas’s family, but as far as I can recall, that’s it.) --1 Corinthians 1:11-16 The Message
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. --James 1:27 New International Version
Related posts:
Hey Dave, I follow you on Twitter. I work cross culturally and in many cultures there is an over-riding sin. In some it’s alcoholism, in others it’s sex. Looking in from the outside at American Christianity, I think commercialism and the rock star mindset among leaders may be it. I don’t know any of these guys, but how can it not go to your head with all the adulation? You have books, conferences, recognition. It hits to the core of who we are, but it is so fleeting. Where I am, if I asked who knows any of the main speakers at Catalyst (or any big conference), no one would know who they are. Fame is fleeting and in all honesty pretty small. Where are the servant leaders? I know of a few that I think would fall into that category. I won’t list them, so they don’t get famous for being #1 on the servant leader list.
Rick: Thanks for following on twitter and for your insightful reply here. I agree that lifting people up on pedestals greatly increases the likelihood that it will go to one’s head. I know if it were me, and I was being paid thousands of dollars and treated like a rockstar to speak at an event, after awhile I wouldn’t be the same person. However, with that said, I am sure of the people on the speaking circuit have been able to remain humble and I know some use these events to help supplement their income so that they can continue doing local ministry.
While I know some people help make ends meet by speaking at these big Christian events, I’m wondering why we need to have such massive events with big budgets and a collection of celebrity speakers that come with a hefty price tag. I’m spoiled a bit I guess because the only conference I have attended so far have been done without admission fees and they have still had prominent people in ministry speaking. Difference has been that not only do they offer their wisdom to us for free, but they also don’t get paid to speak either. In addition, during session breaks they connect with others and engage in individual dialogs, not just being a figure on stage only to be swept off to the green room after they speak. This is really the core of why I am so fond of The Idea Camp and what it represents and not a fan hyped-up, expensive events such as Catalyst.
Just wanted to weigh in and say to Rick, Rick the term servant leader is an oxymoron. I know it sounds nice to our Christian ears, and it makes us feel better about being in charge when we can say servant leader… by why not let it all go and be like Christ who said that He came to serve?
We can’t have it both ways… we need to lead or serve…we can’t do both
Peace
guy
Sadly this problem has been around for 2000 years and isn’t going away any time soon.
I saw an article from many years ago that I had to search for but it was worth it. This says a lot if you have time to read it.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1996/may20/6t6022.html
Steve: Thanks for taking the time to find that article. It was a great perspective! I value your thoughts and viewpoints tremendously!
Actually, Dave, if the cult of celebrity is a problem it’s a problem for all of humanity and not just for Christians, otherwise anyone can dismiss your complaint that Christians are “mimicking the secular world” with the counter-claim that the Elvises of the world are only mimicking Christian superstars, which I dare say is closer to the truth. After all, historically, religious leaders have been the subjects of adoration long before secular rock stars came into existence. Worse, when you complain that Christians who fall into the cult of celebrity are mimicking the secular world, you seem to be implying that the secular world on the whole is cool with this sort of thing and, worse still, that that’s the only reason the cult of celebrity ought to be avoided. Bottom line: your complaint forsakes the church’s universalist foundations.
Sorry, I’m not quite understanding your position in contrast to my original post. Whether it is initially a secular or religious act of creating celebrities, the point I was trying to make is that we as disciples of Christ are to not be in the position of idolizing other humans and building them up as celebrities based on the Scripture references I offered. In fact, one of the issues I think people have within the secular world is that they put their hope and trust in people–rather than God–and therefore are disappointed. If the world idolizes someone like Michael Jackson, it is their right to do so without judgment from me. However, if we in the church are doing a similar thing, then I think we have truth that shows us this is not what we should do.
If your position is that the secular world is mimicking the church through its idolatry, then even more conviction upon us for causing such a bad example for others to follow.
What is the difference between this:
“If the world idolizes someone like Michael Jackson, it is their right to do so without judgment from me. However, if we in the church are doing a similar thing, then I think we have truth that shows us this is not what we should do.”
and this:
“If the world idolizes someone like Michael Jackson, it is their right to do so without judgment from me. However, if we in the church are doing a similar thing, then I think we have the basis for passing judgment.”
*
My position is that as disciples of Christ you are not to be tearing down celebrities, either, Christian or not. That’s something you do as a human being, as someone who lives in the world and is a part of the world. Yet, furthermore, someone who lives in the world and is a part of the world is indiscernible from someone who lives in the world and is not a part of the world.
There are two problems with your comments from my perspective:
You can’t edit my statement and impose “We have the basis to pass judgment” because that is not the context of my words. My context stems from the Scriptural references I cited in my original post. That is a framework from which we find some structure to being disciples of Christ. We are instructed as Christ’s followers to not worship people ahead of God. So, it is not me passing any judgment, but merely my sharing what I believe to be the word of God for other’s who believe it to be truth as well. That is why when I make the reference about non-Christians worshiping and idolizing Michael Jackson, the word of God has no credibility with them. So, it doesn’t apply and they live under the system of the world. However, as a Christian going to a conference and idolizing a fellow Christian speaker, that is an issue.
It is not my intent to tear down celebrities, Christian or not. I am simply stating my opinion from my perspective. It can be accepted, or not. Obviously by some of the comments, it is not accepted by everyone, yet I don’t censor my posts and I don’t think I am the authority on all truth. Basically, if a Christian gains some notoriety it is easy for fame to go to their heads, just as it is for a non-Christian. The problem then becomes that it’s all about them and God takes a backseat. It’s not my place to judge them or tear them down. I’m just trying to bring attention to a different view of large Christian mega conferences and the perpetuation of celebrities being treated like rockstars. I don’t like what it exemplifies, but that explains why I won’t participate in those arenas. If someone else feels justified in going, it is not my job to change their thinking. Again, I only offer a different perspective.
Dave, thank you for the clarification. I think you have a nice perspective, but I don’t understand why you think the Christian truth which proscribes idolatry cannot be laicized for non-Christians. For it’s not so much a Christian truth as it is a Christianized truth, a truth of universal address but limited expression. Thus I was prompted to ask if you are able to conceive of how the cult of celebrity might be bad from a secular point of view as well, to see if you are able to broaden the truth’s expression. Your answer to the question reaches toward the substance of why the cult of celebrity is bad for both Christians and non-Christians, so what we see here is a convergence of perspectives between Christian and secular thought. This may seem to reduce the Church’s monopoly on truth, but I see that as a good thing, a healthy departure from the Church’s celebrity status.
Let me try this again. What do you think of the old saying that “God helps those who help themselves”? Anyone who believes in those words might help himself in a way that would seem to involve placing his faith in a human being instead of in God, a celebrity perhaps, but which actually involves placing his faith in God working in and through that human being. In principle you would not be able to tell the difference between the seeming and the reality, no matter what that person told you. This is the point precisely at which you are to refrain from passing judgment. But in that case, why be disturbed at all about Christian celebrity unless you’re a cynical human being?
Basically, to summarize my reply, I would say that I I believe God works through people. He even works through celebrities. He will even work through Christian speakers who represent themselves as celebrities. I can put my trust in God and receive a blessing from a famous Christian speaker that changes my life forever. However, at the same time, if my faith was in God and not the person, then when the person is proven to be a hypocrite and gets caught in some controversy, then I still see the blessing from God and move in it rather than be disappointed and dejected because the human didn’t live his own words.
Sorry, one more thing and I’m quits. Are you able to conceive of how the cult of celebrity might be a bad thing from a secular point of view? Just curious.
Personally, I see the cult of celebrity being bad from anyone’s point of view because people are imperfect and they will make mistakes. Often in secular community people are looking out for the latest gossip on celebrities because they like seeing them torn down, or they try to live vicariously through them. Celebrities are people to. If we didn’t prop them up, they’d be no different than us. Actually, if we didn’t prop them up I wonder how many people would actually strive to gain celebrity fame?
But Catalyst isn’t advertised as a Christian leadership event. It is a Leadership event with Christian and secular speakers. And to be honest the speakers are rockstars in their own rights. Not because of their books or websites, but because of what God is doing through them.
I understand that fame can go to peoples heads. But how do we know which speaker is having that problem? Without conferences like these how can I to learn from peoples experiances on the wave. You know the wave of success that God sends. How will I know some of the pit falls others have discovered so hopefully we can skip them. Think about it, would you rather learn from me, someone who has been in the ministry for oh 2 seconds or someone who has been in the ministry for years and has riden the wave that God has sent.
When I go to these events I am more at awe of the works of God than the person that God used. I can see from the outside looking in the view may look like idol worship. But for the most part, it is Worship of our great God!
Question: What is it that you learn from people’s experiences on the wave? If there’s any difference between what you learn from them and what you learn from people’s experiences down in the dumps, it’s a completely human lesson in either case that has nothing at all to do with God. But if there is no difference you might as well receive lessons at a real rock concert.
Really? Learning from someone who God blessed with success is completely human experiance? And did you say learning from someone who has never had any success and in fact is “down in the dumps” is the same thing as learning from success? And is a “human lesson” bad? God has blessed me with skills that I learned and grew through the private world that I am now bringing into the church. Should I through all of those “human lessons” in the trash?
And again I will say this… When I go to these events I am more at awe of the works of God than the person that God used. I can see from the outside looking in, the view may look like idol worship. But for the most part, it is Worship of our great God!
Really, if by success you mean becoming a celebrity.
I never said that human lessons are bad.
God blessed Job with tragedy. Would you say that Job was successful? But somehow I doubt that you will try to reap tragedy in your own life to mimic his success the same way you might try to reap wealth and fame to mimic the success of celebrities. Job’s success has nothing at all to do with his material conditions. Neither does the success of celebrities — unless, of course, you measure success in terms of worldly gain.
Well, I would say Job was successful. And if I was trying to learn how to be successful through tragedy I would be the first to sign up for that conference.
I go to Catalyst for tips, stratagies, and systems so I can be a better leader. Not to be entertained, or idol worship. Is there another conference around better equiped to meet my goals?
Cool. So we agree.
Mark, I am not trying to sway you away from going to an event like Catalyst. Additionally while you may have pure motives for going, what about the guy that goes to Catalyst and stands in line to shake the hand of someone like Craig Groeschel, Francis Chan, or Rob Bell and then ask them to autograph a book for them? What about the people that go to Catalyst and worship in tears to Chris Tomlin or David Crowder Band, yet barely sing at their home church? I’ve never been to Catalyst, but I know this element of people is there.
Additionally, why is it that instead of talking about how great God is and some of the exciting things that he is doing Catalyst uses images that resemble promotional material for a rock concert as advertisement to lure people to pay hundreds of dollars to attend?
Think about this scenario. Imagine if we read in the Bible that Peter was paid $3,500 to speak at Pentecost? Wouldn’t that cheapen what he had done? If it’s glorifying to God and edifying to his people, then why all the hype? Jesus didn’t have this kind of hype when he went into a town to speak.
I’ve mentioned it several times on my blog, but The Idea Camp is a conference that isn’t about the hype. People such as Erwin McManus give of their time and pay their own travel expenses to speak at the event. Admission to the conference is free. To know that McManus is doing this gives more credibility to his heart to help build up others and share in his blessings because *anyone* would accept a gig at Catalyst and get paid all the money and shown off like a rockstar to thousands of adoring fans, but not everyone would come for free to share in front of a few hundred people.
I’m just not a fan of the celebrity machine that is Catalyst, even though I have friends that have been invited to speak there. I know my view is in a very small majority, but then again, so was The Way of Christ back in his day too. Staying true to what I believe in leaves me with a good conscious. If you feel justified in supporting Catalyst, I hope you continue to do so.
I respect your staying true to what you believe. But I don’t get the thousands of adoring fans. The majority of people at Catalyst are not standing in line just to touch the sweat from Andy Stanley or Rob Bell’s shirt. They are there to learn from successful leaders. The same leaders that go and speak to The Idea Camp it sounds like. Check out the speakers from last year’s Catalyst West…
http://www.benarment.com/.a/6a00d83451dccb69e2010536f628db970c-300wi
There are always going to be people who take a good thing way to far, but I think those people are in the minority.
Oh and Peter didn’t do anything at Pentecost, it was God. And it doesn’t matter what the world does or thinks, if He wants it to be done it will be done. If some guy wants to pay you 5 dollars or 50K dollars Gods will be done… Money is always a matter of the heart and an act of worship. So what if Peter got paid. What did Peter do with the money? Did he give to God what was owed? Did he give it all back to the Church? Did he use it to change his community? Or did he take it all and buy that new sporty camel that all the other priest were buying back then?
It is all a matter of the heart. And your warning is good, don’t let success alone entice you and don’t worship rockstars, worship God and run after his success. If you have issues with that, Catalyst might not be the best place for you. But The Idea Camp might not be the best place either…
Mark, obviously you and I think differently on the matter of large conferences that use hype to promote them and in-turn ask for money to build said hype. However, I would offer that I think it’s a bit unfair for you to criticize me for having heart issues when it comes to worshiping God or being tempted by success. I’m not here to convince you that Catalyst or any other conference is evil or should be boycotted. Whether The Idea Camp is a better place for me has nothing to do with worshiping speakers or worship artists or crowds. Many of the same things that happen at an event like Catalyst happen at The Idea Camp. However, it goes further than that and that is what I appreciate most about it. I met main speakers at The Idea Camp that are interested in listening and developing dialog with someone as insignificant as me. You may be interested to know that I had a chance to meet someone on the leadership team of Catalyst while at The Idea Camp. I invited him to discuss his inside perspective on Catalyst so I can better understand his context rather than solely embrace my own outside perspective. I will be pursuing that conversation. You see, I’m not here to soapbox my own agenda and manipulate others to follow me. I’m just one guy voicing my thoughts and opinions and hoping to see some dialog develop. Thanks for your perspective, but I’m not seeing any dialog developing, just defense of your position.
Sorry I didn’t mean to say you have a heart issue. I was saying everyone has a heart issue. I was speaking about the 1000 of adoring fans. I was just trying to not knock the speakers and worship leaders for excepting the call to speak or lead worship. Which it seemed to me that you were doing by the what if Peter got paid statement. I really did not mean any disrespect to you. And I was trying to bring the point home that the same speakers speak at conferences that they don’t get paid at with my example of Catalyst West speaker being the same as The Idea Camp speaker. And also that some of the people that Idol worship at Catalyst might just as easily Idol worship at The Idea Camp because they have a heart issue. Not that you have a heart issue. Sorry! Keep on rocking!
Mark
Speaking in a paid or unpaid environment are elements, but the atmosphere that follows all the hype and celebrity does exist. I agree that the same type of idol worship can (and does) occur at The Idea Camp. However, The Idea Camp was not hyped up as a forum to bring people in to sit passively and listen to wisdom or testimonies of how God has grown big churches for sought-after preachers on the speaking circuit–The Idea Camp is about presenting and collaborating on ideas in a welcoming environment. As a nobody, I could connect with a somebody and engage in a conversation that might even benefit the somebody more than the nobody.
I’m not, nor will ever be, against the sharing of wisdom or experience for the benefit of others, for the sake of kingdom building. I am opposed to the environment we create to raise people up on pedestals only to give them more chance to fall down. I can think of numerous examples.
Even just yesterday I talked to a young guy in his twenties that told me he figured with his blogging & online presence he’d be able to network with people that would openly reach out to him because of who he was. However, no one ever opened any doors, lines formed for the self-glorifying handshaking and email address exchanges, and he said there was a sense of phoniness present at the conference. This was from someone that was there, and it came about through a discussion on a completely different topic. Some can handle “fame” and not let it go to their heads. However, most of us in the seats will glorify the speakers no matter how humble they come across. Even in humbleness and humility they create their own buzz about said humbleness and humility. It can be a vicious cycle.
Mark, thanks so much for clarifying your previous comment. I appreciate that very much! Know that I apologize as well as I may have been a bit hyper-sensitive due to some of the backlash I have received as a result of my position on the issue of deadlyviper.org being shutdown and the book being pulled from the shelves. I’m hopeful that this reply also may help to clarify my previous statements. Again, thanks!
Kudos, Dave for writing this. Too often things that are hip and chic don’t get evaluated because a majority of people are following them. Thank you for making us pause and think.
Props for this post, Dave. When I look at the above images, or the promotional materials for any of these big Christian conferences, I’m pretty much repulsed. I don’t understand the appeal. When I go to conferences, I go to hear the ideas and see my buddies. And most of the time, at least some of the folks on the stage ARE my buddies, because they’re NOT rock stars, they’re just Christian folks with ideas and some resources. Sometimes, I’m even allowed to get ON the stage, because they’re the kinds of conferences that aren’t tightly choreographed, and there aren’t celebrities who need to be protected from the crush of crowds.
Also, not to sound like a broken record, but WHY ARE ALL THE SPEAKERS WHITE GUYS? Bleh.