My father was a staff master sargent in the army so he was tough, disciplined and courageous; needless to say he instilled those traits in me.

We have made the church where only white collar man as a whole go and roughnecks have a hard time fitting in. Funny Christ himself was a roughneck who though he chose both white collar and roughnecks his closest friends were roughnecks, Peter, James, and John.

I think scripture is very clear on the role of the man and the woman right from point of creation to the fall even to Ephesians 6.

Yet as roughnecked as I am and having spent most of my life in the construction field, still remember the day my wife said to me “I never though I would see the day my husband’s would not be calloused. I think I have been guilty of being one of those who blended the genres as many of my customers referred to me as a metro sexual because of how artistic and creative I am. In fact I recently left a comment on someones blog and they said to tell my wife thank you for the compliment. I remarked my wife didn’t leave the compliment, I did. OH, sorry most men don’t write like that.

Yet, perhaps that is the problem we are trying to say a man should do this or that or be this or that, when actually we should be saying does the man exhibit characterisics God says a man should have. For me before I got sick, I was an avid surfer, outdoorsman, weightlifter, and usually the leader in any group of men I was with. Yet as one of my friends said once who would have guessed this big ox could play with colors like he does.

Great points Dave don’t know if my comments added or confused just sharing my heart on a well written and great post.

Thank you for your insight on this topic, Mr. Anti-Global Warming Hype Manly Man!

Sarah Sumner’s book “Men and Women in the Church” is a very good read on this subject, though related more directly to our roles in the Church. Sumner makes the case that talent and gifting is not gender based, but is based on the plan God has for our lives.

Having said that, I did raise my son to know that men open doors for other people (not just ladies), they love deeply and sacrifice willingly for those they love and those in need. Men respect others and are polite. Strong men don’t intimidate weaker people. And men are crazy about children. Oh yeah, and real men know global warming is all about the hype, but may not care too much for spiders :-)

As the father of two daughters, I can say that I taught them how to fish and fix things. I even just got a phone call from my 19 year old asking me how to make fried chicken. There are many things that are taught to them in a gender neutral way, such as cooking or sports. My youngest daughter wants to be a police detective, which is another of those roles that was almost exclusively for men as I was growing up.

As for military service, I remember the story of Pat Tillman and how he left the NFL to go overseas and fight to defend his nation in Iraq, eventually being killed in the line of duty. That is the kind of thing I grew up with that I do not see much of anymore and may never see again. I do agree with you in that sense.

In the end, it’s not about position or character in my mind. It’s about losing distinction between who men and women are. When we compete for the same jobs, are attracted to the same people, have interchangeable family roles, etc. it leads me to believe that eventually it will come down to our physical anatomy being the only defining aspect of our gender. Even homosexual couples are adopting children or using donor sperm with no clear roles of father or mother in the traditional sense.

True the men who took up arms in the second world war did so due to patriotism. But that notion might have been born out of a manly ideal that was taught to them by their fathers (to be proud of the union of United States). You ask any 16 year old today if they’d be willing to fight for their country, and they become stoutly defiant.

I remember hearing Adam Carolla talk about his two twin toddlers, both opposite sexes. He was describing his boy as a child who wanted to be left alone to tinker and play with his toy trains. That his boy resembled him – someone who just wanted to work on something with tools and to be kept alone. As opposed to his daughter, who loved make up, and dresses. He described how he would kiss his children before leaving work and his girl would be defiant. She’d run away. Until his nanny, a large woman of south american decent, (whom esentially raised his children), would say to the little girl “He’s my daddy. And I want to kiss him!” Then his little girl would get jealous, and she’d want to kiss her daddy. The nanny would play along and say, “No! He’s my daddy, and I want to kiss him!” But again, the little girl would come up to Adam and kiss him, then look at the maid with that female “He’s mine and not yours!” look. This happened every day.

So when I hear of something like that (I dont have any children yet, and may never), I take into consideration the reality of differences in gender roles. Much of this can be described in child psychology.

That being said, I’m not sure I’m ready to date a woman that looks like you, Dave! :)

Where I think we disagree is that I don’t think women will always be women and men will always be men because I think the lines have been blurred as to what that means. Women are becoming more empowered and being respected as leaders such as Hillary Clinton and even Meg Whitman, former CEO of ebay that is now supposedly looking to run for governor of California. They are taking on what have been traditionally thought of as roles for men. Some men are also staying at home with the kids while their wives work, which has been traditionally thought of a the role of a woman. There is too much going on that negates the previous rules of gender. With men and women being almost interchangeable in things these days and with the increasing attention to homosexuality and bisexuality, I think we are headed for a homogeneous nation where gender is a neutral issue. It seems like the politically correct was of our country right now.

We may not have any wars to fight these days, but I wonder if men still believe in anything. Most of the young men I know care only about having fun, going to clubs, and engaging in sex or drugs. They want to be rockstars without actually learning the importance of an art or instrument.

Back when I was involved in Mixed Martial Arts (specifically, Brazilian jujitsu and muay thai kickboxing) we used to get posers all the time who looked the role (Tap Out shirts, tattoos all over, ripped and huge), but couldn’t last two hours in the gym. After about fifteen minutes of getting owned on the mat, they’d pick up their things and leave, never to return.

But does sports and trade equal a man? Not exactly. I think a real man sacrifices in any way that he can to exact his role. A real fighter sacrifices his time and body at the gym and on the mat to become a champion. He may not win, but he overcomes his fear of strenous exercise, overcomes the suffering of his body, and retains the respect of his peers. That’s why we always hug in MMA. We know what the other guy has gone through to get here. There’s no animosity… everything else is creative marketing.

A real man sacrifices to feed his family. A real man sacrifices his life so his brothers can live. I real man gives up his freedom so that we can thrive as a nation. A real man suffers and doesn’t complain. A real man goes out of his way to make sure you’re taken care of. And of course, a real man knows what love is – not the exterior love of lust you see on MTV – but the real love that Christ showed the church and the world when He gave His life, innocently and for all eternity.

Women will be women, and men will always be men. It’s in our genetic make up. Women want equality but they complain when we don’t pick up the tab. We’ll always be a world of two sexes, and I don’t have a problem with that.