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	<title>Comments on: Asian church vs. multi-cultural church, part 1</title>
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	<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/</link>
	<description>Commentary and discussion ideas on missional church planting, faith, ministry, people, culture and more...</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveingland.com/?p=155#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Hey Dave, it&#039;s my pleasure to comment on these things. I too hope that I&#039;m wrong, for when the day comes that Christ returns, every knee shall bow to Him, the true King of all things, correct? Despite color, creed, age, culture ... we will all know that He has returned to claim His prize. 

I think that if we really wanted to investigate the breakdown of church, we could go into a very poignant, thorough study of psychology, sociology, and class. In many of Paul&#039;s letters, he made it a larger issue that church should transcend race, since the true prize is on Christ. In many of Paul&#039;s letters, he sends so in correction of these church&#039;s errors.

What letters could Paul concievably write today for the Xaris&#039;, Hmong Alliances, Revolution Churches, Bayside churches of this day? I think most notably would be the absense of absolute love for one another which is described in Acts. This everlasting love, reflective of Christ&#039;s sacrifice, should trancend race, color, class, etc. But what happens when people judge my clothes, my style, the music I listen to, etc.? What happens is, you have the current situation with the church, where we are not only divided by color and culture, but by style ... weakening and corrupting the church. 

The thing is, once we break through race and culture, what else stands in our way? Denomination? Geography? Worship styles (hymns or worship? standing or kneeling?)? Sermon styles? The only thing that should MAKE US stand is an inherent love and joy to be more Christ like - to appreciate the giving and hope and instilling it in others, be willing to sacrifice our lives to others, and to ultimately develop a strong relationship with Jesus.  

Revolutions don&#039;t always happen over night. In the meantime, I&#039;ll enjoy some eggrolls, spam musubi, and rice plates on sunday mornings at Xaris. =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dave, it&#8217;s my pleasure to comment on these things. I too hope that I&#8217;m wrong, for when the day comes that Christ returns, every knee shall bow to Him, the true King of all things, correct? Despite color, creed, age, culture &#8230; we will all know that He has returned to claim His prize. </p>
<p>I think that if we really wanted to investigate the breakdown of church, we could go into a very poignant, thorough study of psychology, sociology, and class. In many of Paul&#8217;s letters, he made it a larger issue that church should transcend race, since the true prize is on Christ. In many of Paul&#8217;s letters, he sends so in correction of these church&#8217;s errors.</p>
<p>What letters could Paul concievably write today for the Xaris&#8217;, Hmong Alliances, Revolution Churches, Bayside churches of this day? I think most notably would be the absense of absolute love for one another which is described in Acts. This everlasting love, reflective of Christ&#8217;s sacrifice, should trancend race, color, class, etc. But what happens when people judge my clothes, my style, the music I listen to, etc.? What happens is, you have the current situation with the church, where we are not only divided by color and culture, but by style &#8230; weakening and corrupting the church. </p>
<p>The thing is, once we break through race and culture, what else stands in our way? Denomination? Geography? Worship styles (hymns or worship? standing or kneeling?)? Sermon styles? The only thing that should MAKE US stand is an inherent love and joy to be more Christ like &#8211; to appreciate the giving and hope and instilling it in others, be willing to sacrifice our lives to others, and to ultimately develop a strong relationship with Jesus.  </p>
<p>Revolutions don&#8217;t always happen over night. In the meantime, I&#8217;ll enjoy some eggrolls, spam musubi, and rice plates on sunday mornings at Xaris. =)</p>
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		<title>By: daveingland</title>
		<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>daveingland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveingland.com/?p=155#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Timothy, you&#039;re correct in that I did not know you were part of a predominantly Caucasian congregation. For you to eventually have race become a factor is kind of my point to blog post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-american-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;part two&lt;/a&gt; If leadership is white and the congregation is white, then other people may not feel welcome or be welcomed. You seem to state that this type of situation may always exist. I hope you&#039;re wrong.

Your scenario about the Hmong church makes sense. I could even see it break down even more to Hmong people from Southeast Asia may want more power than Hmong people from mainland China, etc. Sad. 

I don&#039;t believe we have to give up our cultural identity though. We can&#039;t change who we are! We aren&#039;t expected to. However, in the context of the kingdom we are not Japanese, Hmong, Korean, Asian--rather we are disciples of Christ intent on sharing the gospel of grace and exhibiting our faith as love to others so that through us Christ can be glorified and made real in their eyes. In the church we should be seeking Christ and wanting to be more like him, rather an exclusive gathering of Asians trying to be more like Christ serving Asian foods and listening to Asian sermon illustrations. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences and feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, you&#8217;re correct in that I did not know you were part of a predominantly Caucasian congregation. For you to eventually have race become a factor is kind of my point to blog post <a href="http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-american-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-2/" rel="nofollow">part two</a> If leadership is white and the congregation is white, then other people may not feel welcome or be welcomed. You seem to state that this type of situation may always exist. I hope you&#8217;re wrong.</p>
<p>Your scenario about the Hmong church makes sense. I could even see it break down even more to Hmong people from Southeast Asia may want more power than Hmong people from mainland China, etc. Sad. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe we have to give up our cultural identity though. We can&#8217;t change who we are! We aren&#8217;t expected to. However, in the context of the kingdom we are not Japanese, Hmong, Korean, Asian&#8211;rather we are disciples of Christ intent on sharing the gospel of grace and exhibiting our faith as love to others so that through us Christ can be glorified and made real in their eyes. In the church we should be seeking Christ and wanting to be more like him, rather an exclusive gathering of Asians trying to be more like Christ serving Asian foods and listening to Asian sermon illustrations. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your experiences and feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveingland.com/?p=155#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Hey Dave, 
This issue goes very deep for someone like myself mainly because I have always come from a Hmong church background. What you might find amazingly crazy is that before I attended regular Hmong church, I was actually involved in a white Southern Baptist church between the age of 5 to about my teens. Though I thoroughly enjoyed my growing up in the Baptist church, the way that things ended for me there included objections of race and culture rather than Christ and love. 

So first things first, do I believe that churches should stay segregated? Of course not. We can achieve amazing things when we put culture, background, language, and upbringing aside. Are we going to stay segregated? Absolutely. Not only are we divided by class, social stratification, gender, and culture, but we are also divided inside of those churches by the people we &#039;clique&#039; with. As often is the case, any large church will form an often &#039;underlying rebellion&#039; through small groups that can divide a church. 

Sharon, the youth pastor&#039;s wife at the Hmong Alliance church, said something very profound. She stated that the Hmong Alliance church was about the same size as the Radiant Life church off Stockton blvd and the 99, however, God was greatly blessing that church moreso than the Hmong alliance church, simply because Radiant Life was reaching out to the community, getting themselves involved in establishing relationships beyond their church, and simply, being open as a church - growing beyond culture, class, race, background, and ultimately, creed. 

Instead, the Hmong church has stayed closed off, still becoming in bad relations with the surrounding Elk Grove community and losing much of its culture inside its walls and prison that it has created (they&#039;ve lost 5 pastors within the last five years). 

Within a cultural church community also comes the hierarchy established inside of that community. It brings gossip, family challenges, old grudges, and old conversations that involve previous generations, somehow transfixed in a surreal &#039;ancestor to descendant&#039; court room. It&#039;s often better to just let it go ... and focus on the true prize - Christ; a treasure in a field that we want so much, we are willing to buy the land for which this treasure is found. 

The thing about this treasure is, we cannot simply be selfish with it and keep it inside our closet, our house, our community ... we must be willing to save all of those who marvel at Him. Because Christ loves everyone, despite their belief or situation ... and as followers, He wants us to reach out to those who are lost ... every single one. So it&#039;s out job to do so ... despite our koreanism, hmongisms, asianisticisisms, or other large words I&#039;m synthesizing on the spot. 

You&#039;re right ... doing the Lord&#039;s work is not comfortable. Christ comes to the masses and says to give everything up ... your family, your loved ones, your friends ... the things of this world. When we look at what surrounds us, to save those people out there, we kind of have to give up our own cultural identity, because we believe that Christ is so much greater, so much bigger, so much more than mere skin, eye shape, clothes color, myspace comments, etcetera et all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dave,<br />
This issue goes very deep for someone like myself mainly because I have always come from a Hmong church background. What you might find amazingly crazy is that before I attended regular Hmong church, I was actually involved in a white Southern Baptist church between the age of 5 to about my teens. Though I thoroughly enjoyed my growing up in the Baptist church, the way that things ended for me there included objections of race and culture rather than Christ and love. </p>
<p>So first things first, do I believe that churches should stay segregated? Of course not. We can achieve amazing things when we put culture, background, language, and upbringing aside. Are we going to stay segregated? Absolutely. Not only are we divided by class, social stratification, gender, and culture, but we are also divided inside of those churches by the people we &#8216;clique&#8217; with. As often is the case, any large church will form an often &#8216;underlying rebellion&#8217; through small groups that can divide a church. </p>
<p>Sharon, the youth pastor&#8217;s wife at the Hmong Alliance church, said something very profound. She stated that the Hmong Alliance church was about the same size as the Radiant Life church off Stockton blvd and the 99, however, God was greatly blessing that church moreso than the Hmong alliance church, simply because Radiant Life was reaching out to the community, getting themselves involved in establishing relationships beyond their church, and simply, being open as a church &#8211; growing beyond culture, class, race, background, and ultimately, creed. </p>
<p>Instead, the Hmong church has stayed closed off, still becoming in bad relations with the surrounding Elk Grove community and losing much of its culture inside its walls and prison that it has created (they&#8217;ve lost 5 pastors within the last five years). </p>
<p>Within a cultural church community also comes the hierarchy established inside of that community. It brings gossip, family challenges, old grudges, and old conversations that involve previous generations, somehow transfixed in a surreal &#8216;ancestor to descendant&#8217; court room. It&#8217;s often better to just let it go &#8230; and focus on the true prize &#8211; Christ; a treasure in a field that we want so much, we are willing to buy the land for which this treasure is found. </p>
<p>The thing about this treasure is, we cannot simply be selfish with it and keep it inside our closet, our house, our community &#8230; we must be willing to save all of those who marvel at Him. Because Christ loves everyone, despite their belief or situation &#8230; and as followers, He wants us to reach out to those who are lost &#8230; every single one. So it&#8217;s out job to do so &#8230; despite our koreanism, hmongisms, asianisticisisms, or other large words I&#8217;m synthesizing on the spot. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right &#8230; doing the Lord&#8217;s work is not comfortable. Christ comes to the masses and says to give everything up &#8230; your family, your loved ones, your friends &#8230; the things of this world. When we look at what surrounds us, to save those people out there, we kind of have to give up our own cultural identity, because we believe that Christ is so much greater, so much bigger, so much more than mere skin, eye shape, clothes color, myspace comments, etcetera et all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: daveingland</title>
		<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>daveingland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveingland.com/?p=155#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Wayne, thanks for the reference and the prior dialog on your blog! By the way, my spam filer only kicks in with more than 2 links in a comment. Anyway, I found Eugene&#039;s post and linked it in the post above. I actually had dialog already with some people when that cnn.com article came out. Very interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne, thanks for the reference and the prior dialog on your blog! By the way, my spam filer only kicks in with more than 2 links in a comment. Anyway, I found Eugene&#8217;s post and linked it in the post above. I actually had dialog already with some people when that cnn.com article came out. Very interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Park</title>
		<link>http://www.daveingland.com/2008/08/27/asian-church-vs-multi-cultural-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daveingland.com/?p=155#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Hey Dave. You should also check out Eugene Cho&#039;s blog and a recent post titled &quot;why many americans prefer their sundays segregated&quot; - I&#039;d post the link but don&#039;t wanna get sent to spam... cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dave. You should also check out Eugene Cho&#8217;s blog and a recent post titled &#8220;why many americans prefer their sundays segregated&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;d post the link but don&#8217;t wanna get sent to spam&#8230; cheers!</p>
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